Register    Login    Forum    FAQ    PinSimDB.org

Board index » Future Pinball » BAM corner




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 155 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: BAM Lighting Setup
 Post Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2019 3:58 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Sep 13, 2015 1:16 pm
Posts: 304
Yah...for FP and Image Sequences, I discovered a lot of the limitations when doing my MOTU: Mastered mod.

For that table I was using both 480x480 and 640x480 images at around 15 or 20 fps. For whatever reason FP didnt like going higher than around 20.

You can only import 30 frames at a time...WHAT A PAIN!

At one point I had over 2000 images imported and the table was over 200 MB! FP didnt like it so I removed the Intro / Attract video.

Thank god I saved to separate files as I progressed...because you can only remove images from FP one at a time (unless I missed something). What a pain!

The way I did the videos was I had the small multiball Looping videos (that played non-stop during the MB mode) on the lowest Overlay Layer. Then I had the Event Videos on another Overlay Layer above that. Then I had any Text displayed on transparent images on their own layer above that.

This allowed everything to play without interfering with each other and also made it easier to manage.

The one thing that can be a pain though is if you need to hide the different Overlay layers for specific events. I've seen the pains SLAM has gone through on some of his tables to make this work. For whatever reason FP doesn't have a "stop the video and make it go away on the last frame" type of feature. It will stay on the last frame and not go away. It does have a fade away option but that doesn't always work right and you don't always want to use that at the end of a video.

To get around this for MOTU, the method I used was to have all the Events videos on one Image List. For every event I would have the last frame be a transparent image. This way when I played an event clip, you would see nothing when it was done. It's still displaying that last image, but since its transparent, you see nothing and it wont interfere with the other video layers.

This worked really well, and helped to shape some of my methods I used for Pinup Player.

SLAM's integration of his videos on the playfield looks amazing in VR...perfect really. Holograms like War of the Worlds, Star Wars Empire Edition, Robots Invasion, etc are stunning in VR.

Some of the limitations I have noted with Overlays and Holograms...

Overlays on a playfield can only be flat with the playfield they can't be vertical or angled. If you want that, then you need to use a hologram.

Holograms can't be completely solid.

Gimil...I wonder then...you should with BAM now be able to take a playfield overlay that is off to the side and now position it any way you want on the playfield? It can be angled and put wherever you want? This would be cool as Overlays allow you solid videos that also have transparent portions. Imagine solid floating text...or an animation of mario running,etc. This can't be done with holograms as they need a solid black layer behind them to work (like Jaws).


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: BAM Lighting Setup
 Post Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2019 4:17 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Jan 27, 2014 12:36 pm
Posts: 2320
Location: Ontario, Canada
I believe Steve did cool stuff with hologram floating text in robots invasion I can grab any of that or overlays and move it anywhere...and angle it or whatever


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: BAM Lighting Setup
 Post Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2019 4:30 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Nov 17, 2010 7:41 pm
Posts: 856
I think it was Steve Paradis that pitched the idea of the hologram to Chris when he was developing FP. It was never planned, but Steve wanted to replicate the old Pinball 2000 games with the hologram projector at the back of the table. Steve used it first for his Dark Quest game, which is still an amazing game today.

And that was it's primary use, as a transparent hologram. I came along and started adding movie clips to pinball games on an 'LCD', which had never been done before, but Chris was long gone by then so the transparent hologram was never upgraded to a solid LCD style player.

I get around this by having a solid background it plays against, but if you sweep around the table in 3D, you can see the hologram coming through all solid objects in front of it.

No big deal, it still looks great, but yes, a big pain in the backside to create those clips. Although after many years, I can generate a movie clip in about 10 mins, from an edit in my video editor to individual frames, to compression and resize, to import into FP. They have to be super short though, 3-4 seconds is about 40 frames. I think I added 64 clips to Iron Man, that's my record so far.


The shadow map generator in BAM is a bit hit and miss, some lights can be mapped others won't work, it seems a bit buggy at the moment, and I can't get them to look right. When I apply them, the playfield texture looks washed out and faded. So for now I'll stick to fake shadows I add in Photoshop to the playfield texture.

Worth a try though!


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: BAM Lighting Setup
 Post Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2019 4:45 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Jan 27, 2014 12:36 pm
Posts: 2320
Location: Ontario, Canada
Quote:
.The shadow map generator in BAM is a bit hit and miss, some lights can be mapped others won't work, it seems a bit buggy at the moment, and I can't get them to look right. When I apply them, the playfield texture looks washed out and faded. So for now I'll stick to fake shadows I add in Photoshop to the playfield texture.

Worth a try though!


I had the same issue...I wonder if Rav can enhance the intensity of the shadows without having to turn lighting so low...it at least allows a reference of where shadows should be when certain lights are on ?

The "ambient light" shadow map seemed to mess with flasher reflections

I played Slam Jaws last pm in VR and loved it !!
The rotating shark fin on the centre targets and the spear gun is very cool!

I like that you lose a ball if you enter sharks mouth during certain modes...


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: BAM Lighting Setup
 Post Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2019 5:07 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2012 11:12 pm
Posts: 1846
Location: Arkansas, USA
I'm pretty sure you can rotate an overlay so it is vertical with miniplayfield so you can stop using the transparent holograms if desired. Gimli is the expert on them though.

I watched a few videos of real tables being played at night. There are some shadows produced from the posts on the slingshots but they seem to be a bit more diffuse than what we see in BAM. I think Rav would be willing to make changes to shadow maps but we might want to wait until we have a clear concept of what we want. Gimli might be publishing IJ with shadow maps so we'll see what happens.

Gimli is going to have to explain to me sometime what some of the stuff does on his new dynamic flipper code. All I am sure about is it turns off bounce control when the ball speed is less than 200. There some code about ball trajectory but I don't understand it.

George


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: BAM Lighting Setup
 Post Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2019 5:25 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Nov 17, 2010 7:41 pm
Posts: 856
Gimli wrote:
Quote:
I played Slam Jaws last pm in VR and loved it !!
The rotating shark fin on the centre targets and the spear gun is very cool!

I like that you lose a ball if you enter sharks mouth during certain modes...



Has everyone here got a VR set up except me!?

Yes, Jaws eating the ball during multiball is one of my better ideas, stops people zoning out and just blindly flipping the balls. I should add a 'burp' sound fx when he eats the last ball to end the multiball. Probably not the right tone for the game, but funny.

It was important that I added as much personality to that toy as I could. He's a real presence in the game. Best toy in a pinball game ever? Rudy in Funhouse or the Ringmaster in Circus Voltaire are most people's choice, but I think Jaws is better. Good job Rom!


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: BAM Lighting Setup
 Post Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2019 5:25 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Jan 27, 2014 12:36 pm
Posts: 2320
Location: Ontario, Canada
GeorgeH wrote:
I'm pretty sure you can rotate an overlay so it is vertical with miniplayfield so you can stop using the transparent holograms if desired. Gimli is the expert on them though.


Just let me know what you want to try....

GeorgeH wrote:
I watched a few videos of real tables being played at night. There are some shadows produced from the posts on the slingshots but they seem to be a bit more diffuse than what we see in BAM. I think Rav would be willing to make changes to shadow maps but we might want to wait until we have a clear concept of what we want. Gimli might be publishing IJ with shadow maps so we'll see what happens.

Only once we figure out Slams lighting and we'll see if Rav can help clarify the shadow process.

GeorgeH wrote:
Gimli is going to have to explain to me sometime what some of the stuff does on his new dynamic flipper code. All I am sure about is it turns off bounce control when the ball speed is less than 200. There some code about ball trajectory but I don't understand it.
George

see image

The extra stuff is just Debug Monitoring stuff and doesn' t effect game play at all...

Ball trajectory is the large arrow....it indicates which direction the ball is rolling
This is measured using Rav's "newton tick" routine

Code:
 BallTrajectory  = Atn2( xBAM.Ball.Velocity.X, xBAM.Ball.Velocity.y )


it is analogous to Ball to Flipper angle in the prehit code...

Code:
ball_to_flipper_angle =  Atn2( LeftFlipperExt.BallHSpeed, LeftFlipperExt.BallVSpeed )


You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: BAM Lighting Setup
 Post Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2019 6:03 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2012 11:12 pm
Posts: 1846
Location: Arkansas, USA
OK

I see this subroutine is not called to run so I assume it is just leftover code:

Sub NewtonPhysicsTick()


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: BAM Lighting Setup
 Post Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2019 6:05 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Jan 27, 2014 12:36 pm
Posts: 2320
Location: Ontario, Canada
GeorgeH wrote:
OK

I see this subroutine is not called to run so I assume it is just leftover code:

Sub NewtonPhysicsTick()


Correct...it is for table devs that wish to code game events based on those parameters...


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: BAM Lighting Setup
 Post Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2019 6:10 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Jan 27, 2014 12:36 pm
Posts: 2320
Location: Ontario, Canada
SLAMT1LT wrote:
The shadow map generator in BAM is a bit hit and miss, some lights can be mapped others won't work, it seems a bit buggy at the moment, and I can't get them to look right. When I apply them, the playfield texture looks washed out and faded. So for now I'll stick to fake shadows I add in Photoshop to the playfield texture.

Worth a try though!


Try this code SLAM
Code:
xBAM.ShadowMap "flasherrl1", 900  , 1    ,     5,      100,        1
   xBAM.ShadowMap "flasherrl2", 900  , 1    ,     5,      100,        1


Put it in the Sub Bam_init directory

Rav responded and first number " 900" is the intensity or amount of the Shadow
So you don't need to mass with ambient lighting to make it show...just play with that number.

I think Shadow mapping just needs us to play with Rav's parameters and figure them out...

In Rav's demo table , the Ramps cast shadows because the flashers are above the Ramps.
In jaws we don't get ramp shadows as the flashers are lower, I think..

but the shadows from the slings are cool...


Top 
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
 
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 155 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16  Next

Board index » Future Pinball » BAM corner


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: bgood, Google Adsense [Bot] and 3 guests

 
 

 
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to: