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 Post subject: Re: BAM - FP Physics Tweaks. [vip]
 Post Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2017 10:39 pm 
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Joined: Thu Nov 18, 2010 5:56 pm
Posts: 223
when i used the DLL that is on the first page I get the physic tweak option :)
problem now is that is crashes PinballX when Pinballx calls BAM. I have posted the problem in the section under pinballx


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 Post subject: Re: BAM - FP Physics Tweaks. [vip]
 Post Posted: Sun Feb 05, 2017 1:08 pm 
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Joined: Mon Mar 25, 2013 4:02 pm
Posts: 880
BAM-beta update:
http://www.ravarcade.pl/beta/BAM.dll
(This is also release candidate)

Again... this will be long post...

1. "slope" & "name" in XML.
I added 2 more params for physics branch in XML.
Image
- slope is same thing as table slope in FP editor or param in Physics Tweak menu.
If you use XML with that param in tablename.ZIP or tablename.XML it will be ignored.
If you use it in script (xBAM.PhysicsXML) it will be used. So this way you can change table slope from script. It will be used when you switch between physics presets in BAM menu. See "XML_Presets.txt".

- name - well... it does nothig for physics. You can just give name to physics-XML. See "XML_Presets.txt".

2. XML_Presets.txt
Gimli was asking me for ability to switch between physics-presets from BAM menu. Here it comes.
XML_Presets.txt is another file in BAM dir. In is just set of many XML files concatenated in one big file. This file will be created only when you go to Physics Tweak menu and "add current xml" to it or you create this file manually.

So in Physics Tweak menu you have now [XML Presets] section:
- "No." - you can here switch between presets stored in XML_Presets.txt. In this line you will see:
Number - (order of appearance in XML_Presets.txt)
[FPS] - optional part - it will be displayed if preset has different FPS settings than current. You can't change on-the-fly physics FPS setting, so it will indicate, that if you copy this part of "XML_Presets.txt" to separate XML file you may get different physics.
Name - (See above) of XML
When you switch between prests, they are not applied.
- "Use preset" - it will copy values from preset to current settings
- "Delete preset" - it will remove selected preset from XML_Presets.txt
- "Add current XML" - it will add current XML to XML_Presets.txt

So now you can use it to:
- temporary store current settings ... change many setting.... and change all back.
- store few favorite setting and test it quickly.

Note.
Please remember, that with Physics Tweak menu you can change only some physics settings. It is not same thing as loading table with tablename.XML on disk.
Also it is easy to delete preset from XML_Presets.txt. Don't blame be, if you lost somthing. DO BACKUPS.

3. Flipper testing tool.
This is same version given to GeorgeH.
I'm not sure if it is usefull. So i stopped working on it.
Anyway here it comes...

Before i explain it, please look at screenshot:
http://www.ravarcade.pl/beta/damping-test.png

On this screenshot you can see "red lines" with few ball paths.
Ball was always released from same point on playfield.
LeftFlipper is activated different time after ball release.
So for every line, ball rolls little longer before flipper is activated. You can see impact of flipper activation delay on ball trajectory.

First run:
1. Load FP "New table". Start game. Press 5 and 1 to get ball on playfield.
2. Go to menu:
[Dev Options] -> [Physics Tweaks] -> [Flippers Tweaks]
3. Go to "Run Test" and press enter.
Now wait. You can hide BAM menu.

Now some description:
1. "Flipper name" - you can select flipper based on name in script.
2. "Iterations" - you can change number of ball starting points.
3. "Move ball right step" - if "Iterations" > 1, whan after all tests finished from one point, ball will be moved right given number of millimeters and test will be repeated.
4. "Sim step" - flipper will be activated in different time. This is number of simulation frames between flipper activations (maybe "test resolution" is better name)
5. "Time after hit" - how long after flipper activation ball will be tracked (or how long is red line for each test)
6. "Ball Position" - you can set starting point in 3D (x,y,z), starting ball velocity and starting ball move direction. (Ball starting rotation is cleard).

7. "Ball set pos key" - you can assing key. When you press this key, current ball position, velocity, move direction will be copied.

I was thinking about 2 types of test.
1. For ball rolling over flipper. (like default test). "Iterations" = 1.
2. For ball falling from to on flipper from many starting points, each starting point is moved little bit. "Iterations" > 1.

Flipper activation time is controlled be moment when ball touch flipper for first time. At this moment flipper is activated first time. When i will try to activate flipper little bit later or little bit earlier.
For second type of test i test only "earlier" activation.

I know, that it is little complicated, but i think it may be uesfull for 2 tasks:
1. Check what will happend, when you change physics values little bit.
2. Check if you can hit needed objects on table. (... and proof it or decide if it is hard or easy).

4. Magnetic fields
This is topic for another thread.

This is Release Candidate version of BAM.
So, if you find some bugs, let me know.

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http://www.ravarcade.pl
Better Arcade Mode
current BAM version: v1.4-207, released: Apr 20, 2018


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 Post subject: Re: BAM - FP Physics Tweaks. [vip]
 Post Posted: Sun Feb 05, 2017 4:58 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jan 27, 2014 12:36 pm
Posts: 1994
Location: Ontario, Canada
Thanks Rafal !!!
Amazing work !!
I'll try and have a look today.
I haven't checked out the magnetic field yet, but hope to soon.

I have been playing with jazzing up jaws for virtual reality...

My wife stole my lap top for a women's conference :lol:
Apparently it's in the fine print or our marriage contract...


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 Post subject: Re: BAM - FP Physics Tweaks. [vip]
 Post Posted: Sun Feb 05, 2017 5:14 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jan 27, 2014 12:36 pm
Posts: 1994
Location: Ontario, Canada
Thanks so much for the "xml preset" save

In this Beta and the previous one you sent.... the "save tablename.xml" doesn't seem to work. For instance, the only change I made was Damping set to 10.0 and Omega to 70.
I selected "Save tablename.xml" but when I reload table it goes back to default.

With this new beta if I save my changes as a preset, then I am able to relaod the preset.
It works perfectly...


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 Post subject: Re: BAM - FP Physics Tweaks. [vip]
 Post Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2017 1:34 am 
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Joined: Mon Jan 27, 2014 12:36 pm
Posts: 1994
Location: Ontario, Canada
* Bug Report

Rafal,

The current bam beta doesn't seem to load table.xml and it doesn't seem to save table.xml
Also the menu doesn't display the loaded xml as it used to


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 Post subject: Re: BAM - FP Physics Tweaks. [vip]
 Post Posted: Tue May 08, 2018 11:46 pm 
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Joined: Tue May 01, 2012 11:13 pm
Posts: 294
Location: Abbotsford
Rav:
I noticed Flipper RotationSpeedChart - and if I understand this it just adjusts the actual speed of the flipper, and not the strength of the flipper itself? It's a bit confusing, your example lists 4 numeric values, but you don't mention what these numbers actually represent. {2.0,28.0} I know "2" is the MS, and I am guessing 28 is the omega (speed?) of the flipper. Are the other ones the color coding on the graph? So it would be (Red,Yellow,Green,White)?

Does one of these affect the flipper strength as well? Sure be nice to be able to do proper flipper tricks like true backhands and flick passes.

That one example does seem to work nicely with my newest project. Are there any more examples of this so we can get a better understanding, as I have never come across any tables that use this.

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 Post subject: Re: BAM - FP Physics Tweaks. [vip]
 Post Posted: Wed May 09, 2018 2:31 pm 
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Joined: Mon Mar 25, 2013 4:02 pm
Posts: 880
blue wrote:
... if I understand this it just adjusts the actual speed of the flipper, and not the strength of the flipper itself?

blue wrote:
Does one of these affect the flipper strength as well?

Yes.... and no.
You don't have direct control over strength/force of motor used to rotate flipper. You have control over result of motor force => speed of rotation (omega in XML file).
In short: <flipper mass> * <motor strength> = <speed of flipper rotation>
You can set <flipper mass> and <speed of flipper rotation>.
Because <flipper mass> = constant.
<motor strength> / <flipper mass> = <motor strength>
So, you have some control over <motor strength>.

blue wrote:
.It's a bit confusing, your example lists 4 numeric values, but you don't mention what these numbers actually represent. {2.0,28.0} I know "2" is the MS, and I am guessing 28 is the omega (speed?) of the flipper.

Yes. Pairst of params: first = time in ms, secont = omega.

blue wrote:
Are the other ones the color coding on the graph? So it would be (Red,Yellow,Green,White)?

One more time, look at image:
http://www.ravarcade.pl/beta/flipper-chart-2.png
- RED: <flipper rotation (angle)> as fucntion of <time>.
- YELLOW: <flipper energy (= omega)> as function of <time>. It is same thing as you set as RotationSpeedChart, but "sampled" by physics engine.
- WHITE vertical line: time, when flipper reach maximum angle.
- GREEN: <flipper energy> as function of <flipper angle>. It is "mix" of first 2 charts RED and YELLOW.



blue wrote:
Are there any more examples of this so we can get a better understanding, as I have never come across any tables that use this.

Nope. I did one example almost 2 years ago and nobody try it.

_________________
http://www.ravarcade.pl
Better Arcade Mode
current BAM version: v1.4-207, released: Apr 20, 2018


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 Post subject: Re: BAM - FP Physics Tweaks. [vip]
 Post Posted: Wed May 09, 2018 4:28 pm 
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Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2012 11:12 pm
Posts: 1535
Location: Arkansas, USA
If memory serves me, I think there is a way of saving the settings of a third flipper. It seems like you press Ctrl C to copy the settings to the clipboard and paste them in the script? I experimented with this some but didn't understand it so I never used it.

George


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 Post subject: Re: BAM - FP Physics Tweaks. [vip]
 Post Posted: Thu May 10, 2018 12:13 am 
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Joined: Tue May 01, 2012 11:13 pm
Posts: 294
Location: Abbotsford
Thanks Rav. Bit hard to understand, even your explanation is greek to me, so I will do what I normally do, is just add numbers and see what happens. :)

What I was looking at is a way to adjust the actual strength of the flipper based on the arch as the flipper moves towards it's upward position. From a downward position, when a player presses the flipper button, the flipper moves very slowly and has very little strength till the coil is fully energized. (That's the flick pass, a ball at the very tip will shoot the ball up the opposite lane) At about 15%, the strength increases greatly, till it's maximum strength which is about 80% of it's arch (degree in FP) before it drops down to a set value (not sure, but it's about 80 percent or so) When the flipper is held up, it still powers the coil to keep the flipper in the upward position, (Again not sure but a good guess is 25% of the strength)and it only loses power to the coil as the flipper drops. The excess power in the coil allows players to do the Backhand flipper trick shot (like Flash Gordon, where you can hit the right set of inlanes with the right side flipper, use to do it all the time, won so many games :) )

The thing with FP is it does not have the gradual increase of strength that is consistent with the degree of arch of the flipper, there is too much power in the flipper at the start of a key press (VPX does it as well BTW) It's the reason for some of the very weird behavior with the stock FP exe flippers, including the severe angle the ball can come off the tip.

I am using your example in my next table I think, seems to work really well with my Blue's flippers mod. Rereading your explanation, the math makes sense, maybe when I have a bit of time, start plugging in some numbers.
Thanks

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Latest projects and rants at My Facebook Page
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Latest Project: FPx Template Engine


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