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 Post subject: Re: BAM Dynamic Flipper Breakthrough !!
 Post Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2018 2:29 pm 
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Joined: Mon Mar 25, 2013 4:02 pm
Posts: 1001
GeorgeH wrote:
Rav,

I added your "Fixed" code and "Vertical Average" code to two copies of Iron Man, replacing the old bounce code without changing any of the constants. The flippers didn't have as much bounce as your demo. Is there a reason for this?

I saved the two versions of the table here:
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/hi33cnwiiwy0 ... jXQZa?dl=0

George

It works fine for me, but my values from example don't looks good.

- expected_ball_speed_after_hit - 240 is too low , (this table have higher slope ? or other physics params), i increased it to 400
- minimum_elasticCoef_to_scale_fast_balls - i tested flipper for high speed balls (1500 - 2500). With value = 0.05 ball almost stops. I increased to 0.2 and all looks much better
- base_elasticCoef - i increased value to 0.95 (almost all energy will return to ball after hit)

At end all looks realy nice for me.
- slow balls bounce nice. Even when ball falls thru inlines it bounces nice and it is easy to catch ball on flipper. Ball just stops almost on flipper tip.
- fast ball nice slow down and don't fly away from flippers.
- with GeorgeH (?) omega control and this bounce control i can easly pass ball from one flipper to another.
For me all works realy nice.

Here are my settings:
Code:
   const base_elasticCoef                        = 0.95 ' very bouncy flipper rubber
   const expected_ball_speed_after_hit           = 400  ' calc elasticCoef to get desired ball speed after ball hit flipper
   const minimum_elasticCoef_to_scale_fast_balls = 0.20 ' we will add this to calculated elastiCoef, so ball after hit will have aditional 5% of speed before hit
   const reduction_for_flipper_in_motion         = 0.15 ' if flipper is not in starting point, reduce elasticCoef by 20%


Only problem i have is that few times ball falls under table near magnet.
[update] After few more plays, i have no problems. Maybe that "ball fall" was triggered my owy (in BAM) ball position settings used when i tested physics.

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 Post subject: Re: BAM Dynamic Flipper Breakthrough !!
 Post Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2018 5:33 pm 
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Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2012 11:12 pm
Posts: 2524
Location: Arkansas, USA
Thanks Rav! I'll give it a try.

Gimli says the bounce control code doesn't seem to work if you have flipper material settings elsewhere in the code. My previous understanding is the bounce control code overrides all the other settings. Who is right?

The table slope on Iron Man is 6.8 (I removed it from the script so that end users can easily change the slope in the editor without changing the script). The table slope on your demo is 7.0 so Iron Man should be slightly slower than your demo. Maybe the bounce settings interact with the other settings?

George


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 Post subject: Re: BAM Dynamic Flipper Breakthrough !!
 Post Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2018 6:28 pm 
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Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2012 11:12 pm
Posts: 2524
Location: Arkansas, USA
Rav,

Thanks!!! You helped a lot. The bounce seemed to be a bit too much (but only slightly). I tweaked it a bit to where I am happy with it now. I guess I was apprehensive to set the parameters so much higher than your settings. I'm not sure why the settings needed to be so much higher but I have a starting point now for other tables. I think the Vertical Average is the best version of the bounce script as you suggest.

I think I will repost the table as a new version if Gimli likes it. If TerryRed, Gin, Slam or anyone else would like to comment, please do.

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/hi33cnwiiwy0 ... jXQZa?dl=0

One last question, do the bounce settings affect objects on the table other than the flippers? They seem to but maybe it is my imagination.

George


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 Post subject: Re: BAM Dynamic Flipper Breakthrough !!
 Post Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2018 7:42 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jan 27, 2014 12:36 pm
Posts: 2859
Location: Ontario, Canada
Sounds great !!
will check tomorrow
Thx Rav and George !


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 Post subject: Re: BAM Dynamic Flipper Breakthrough !!
 Post Posted: Sat Dec 08, 2018 12:10 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jan 27, 2014 12:36 pm
Posts: 2859
Location: Ontario, Canada
Now that is what I am talking about GeorgeH and Rav !

I really like the bounce now !
seems more realistic but not crazy and the ball is still controllable ! :D


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 Post subject: Re: BAM Dynamic Flipper Breakthrough !!
 Post Posted: Sat Dec 08, 2018 1:22 pm 
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Joined: Sun Sep 13, 2015 1:16 pm
Posts: 536
Yes...same here. I noticed a much bigger difference and was also able to make center shots better. Nice!



So for the new physics....is it literally as simple as copying the portions of the script for physics from say, this updated Iron Man table to my DOFLinx modded version?



If we are able to have ALL the physics settings in script....that would be a MUCH better way to use it. It would make updating a table much easier and then I can implement them on DOFLinx modded tables easier,etc...



At this point...the only major thing FP is lacking is playfield "image" lights aren;t self-illuminating. So if you turn global lighting lighting down on the table...the image lights also dim.


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 Post subject: Re: BAM Dynamic Flipper Breakthrough !!
 Post Posted: Sat Dec 08, 2018 2:31 pm 
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Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2012 11:12 pm
Posts: 2524
Location: Arkansas, USA
TerryRed wrote:
Yes...same here. I noticed a much bigger difference and was also able to make center shots better. Nice!


I noticed that there seem to be effects other than just bounce off an idle flipper. I thought the bounce control might be affecting other objects on the table. But it could be the bounce control affecting hits of the ball also. I asked Rav about it. We'll see what he has to say.

TerryRed wrote:
So for the new physics....is it literally as simple as copying the portions of the script for physics from say, this updated Iron Man table to my DOFLinx modded version?


If you want the new playfield texture from the day version, you would be better off converting the whole table to DOFLinx. I moved objects slightly to fit the new texture and don't even remember everything I did.

If you just want to add the physics to your version without adding anything, you need to change the strengths of all the bumpers and rubbers on layer 3. Then change the strength of the plunger on layer 1. You should look at the flippers also. I may have changed the angles or something on them, I don't remember. That should do it (I think) plus adding the XML and dynamic flipper stuff from the script.

TerryRed wrote:
If we are able to have ALL the physics settings in script....that would be a MUCH better way to use it. It would make updating a table much easier and then I can implement them on DOFLinx modded tables easier,etc...


You might be right. As it stands now, the only option I have is to change strengths of the objects on the table. To be honest, I am not fond of the sliders for strength. I wish there were more than just the 9 settings. I would prefer changing numbers. It is sometimes difficult to see if the setting of a slider on one object matches another object.

TerryRed wrote:
At this point...the only major thing FP is lacking is playfield "image" lights aren;t self-illuminating. So if you turn global lighting lighting down on the table...the image lights also dim.


Have you tried the light settings in BAM? I think there are some settings there that might accomplish what you want. It is not easy to publish it though. You end up having to publish the CFG file which has many other settings in it.

George


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 Post subject: Re: BAM Dynamic Flipper Breakthrough !!
 Post Posted: Sat Dec 08, 2018 6:33 pm 
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Joined: Sun Sep 13, 2015 1:16 pm
Posts: 536
BAM only allows for control of the Global Lighting I think....not the playfield "image" lights.

Try MOTU...then New Renderer...and set you Lighting to Night, or Darkest you can go...and you will see the playfield image lights don't "light up" and can't be seen...unlike flashers,etc


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 Post subject: Re: BAM Dynamic Flipper Breakthrough !!
 Post Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2018 6:26 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jan 27, 2014 12:36 pm
Posts: 2859
Location: Ontario, Canada
I am going through this thread and hope to add a tutorial soon but here are some of the paremeters that have been enabled (and I am sure there are more....)

1. XBAM parameters we can measure:BAM Ball tracking

If xBAM.Ball.Velocity.X = 500 then.....
xBAM.Ball.Velocity.y
xBAM.Ball.Position.X
xBAM.Ball.Position.Y
AddDebugText "PreHit at frame: " & xBAM.NewtonCounter
XBAM.BallSpeedLimit - Speed limiter that we can set
xBAM.Ball.Speed
Maximum Speed
Ball Direction

2. Prehit flipper functions we can tweak:Flipper Extensions

If RightFlipperExt.BallHSpeed then .........
If RightFlipperExt.BallHVSpeed then ..........
If RightFlipperExt.ContactPoint then ..........
If RightFlipperExt.Angle then ..............
If RightFlipperExt.Hit (True/False) then .........

3.Codeable parameters from xml ( I think this may enabled for more than just flipper material?) Material Parameters, Flipper Omega

xBAM.Physics.SetMaterial "objectname", elasticCoef, softnessCoef, staticFriction, kineticFriction

For example lower each parameter defined in xml by 10%
RightFlipperExt.SetMaterial 0.9 * elasticCoef
RightFlipperExt.SetMaterial 0.9 * softnessCoef
RightFlipperExt.SetMaterial 0.9 * staticFriction
RightFlipperExt.SetMaterial 0.9 * kineticFriction

For example Flipper Spead:
RightFlipperExt.Omega = 50


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 Post subject: Re: BAM Dynamic Flipper Breakthrough !!
 Post Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2018 2:25 am 
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Joined: Tue May 01, 2012 11:13 pm
Posts: 415
Location: Abbotsford
Thanks Gimli if you do. If you can post any code examples that would help greatly as well. After a long break, I'm starting up again and will be using Dynamic flippers, but I also have a few ideas so may just use my own setup if I feel it's better, or more suitable for Bally type flippers. Some of this stuff I didn't even realize was in there, and wasted quite a bit of time, but if some of this is what I was hoping for, then off to the races I go.

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