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 Post subject: Flipper shooting angle
 Post Posted: Sat Jun 21, 2014 1:59 pm 
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Joined: Wed Oct 09, 2013 3:48 pm
Posts: 7
Played some real pinball recently and I found that the shooting angle from the flippers is much steeper, which means that it is too flat in FP. This makes it very hard to at hgh targets sometime. Is there a way to adjust this angle? Maybe in the .XML file, tried out various options but w/o success yet.


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 Post subject: Re: Flipper shooting angle
 Post Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2014 7:43 pm 
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Joined: Tue Nov 19, 2013 10:29 am
Posts: 567
Flipper angle can be modified the FP editor.. Or maybe are you taking about something else?


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 Post subject: Re: Flipper shooting angle
 Post Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2014 10:32 pm 
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Joined: Wed Feb 06, 2013 6:32 am
Posts: 405
Location: German
Flipper angle is not similar like original, FP editor is no help for weak rubber Flippers at high ramps. Flippers have not the power. There is no help with FP editor. Therefore it need mich time to tweak a table for zed-physic. Somtimes it seems to work good, but it needs a more poweful tricky model. For high ramps power is to less at thick and middle size. Compare it physis mod (VP 10) and you know what i mean. Original layer at most tables is 7. At this layer ball have troubes with collisions. Gold example for poor power is Ripley and star trek next gen.
Ideal angle AS example 120/42. WISH could keep angle like orginal- that is it.
If you know somthing without changing Angel and xml- that is - i see no improvement more.
A third invisible Flipper i have never tired...hope you know the difficulty in that case.
Once playes VP 10 physicmod-that ball behaviour we need.
Who wants to tweak about 300 tables ;)
So we have it a litte better than in confusions at many VP.exes, more than we have. Play a VP physis mod table at force 2800- in FP i Miss such possibility.


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 Post subject: Re: Flipper shooting angle
 Post Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2014 2:14 pm 
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Joined: Wed Oct 09, 2013 3:48 pm
Posts: 7
It seems, this problem has been solved in the new Zed-Version of Medeval Madness! It is the first Zed-Mod which has flippers with enough power at the flipper base (for high shots) and a realistic angle. The first table ever in FP that easily allows post-passes!
My only problem is, i can't figure out how it has been done, so I could tweak my other tables analogously. I tried to ex/Import the flipper models (to Zed-LOTR) or to replace the .XML with the one from MM, but that didn't work. Skinooe, did you do this Zed-Mod (can't see it in the credits)? I would be very keen to know how I can transfer these realistic flipper physics to my other tables!

P.S.:The script of MM has references to LeftFlipper and to LeftFlipper1, so maybe it works with overlay flippers. Bit I can't find a LeftFlipper1 in the table Editor!?


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 Post subject: Re: Flipper shooting angle
 Post Posted: Sat Jun 28, 2014 1:55 am 
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Joined: Wed Feb 06, 2013 6:32 am
Posts: 405
Location: German
Left Flipper1/2: invisible flippers seen at ring, mark ring and take the visible model - now you can see flipper1:
- did enlarge ramp wall s1-2 steps
- ball stopper over playfield (see MM)
- changed pegs (ZED models)
- started tweaking at table layer 6,8 and tweaked as long I had best results ( needed some days), at the end table layer to 7,5
- better aiming with older tables with strength medium at flipper
- table size for each table id different: first tried T1 Zed models, with bad results, changed to model T2 (Zed models)
- new xml is a little help
and many tests and compares with pinball arcade playing brought this result ( this tweaking is based at my and manddrakkes personal feeling).
- many things with zed modding would be easier with more critical testers
- it is very hard than too decide as one man show which tweaked table should be released ( sometimes got more than 10 different results - but which one is the best - now - to be alone makes it all hard)
-every talbe has other sizes- what you do is possible at vp simulations but not at fp tables: to big differences in size and playfield scans.
Only putting one settings above all tables will bring bad results.

- maybe I will offer some mods here in forum to discuss what needs more improvement similar like VP forum, so that everyone can do inputs, scribt lines, and talking about more than saying thanks......
- great community has great ideas, so everyone can do a little with his talent to make table playable more real

next tweaks I will start it a tester threat if, so that everybody can do their inputs and bring in help. I am convinced, that with this physic and models -tables can be tweaked as we known at some vp10 physic hacks.
Many peoples in this forum are also present at vp communiy.
It should pe possible to release community mods. Why is all people do a one man show? In this forum we have all we need for good communication. So why don't we use it.
Some peoples are good in musc, others makes great models, others are good in composing lightning, others can do grat animations - so why not using all the great talents we have.
I am convinced - we ne more invovle the community for better results.
With bam, newer physics, many different talents could bring all tables to a higher label
Then let it do...... :mrgreen:


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 Post subject: Re: Flipper shooting angle
 Post Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 5:02 pm 
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Joined: Wed Oct 09, 2013 3:48 pm
Posts: 7
Thanks, skinooe for this explanation. I experimented a bit with some older Zed-tables (e.g. AfM; LOTR, FH, Whirlwind). Even if the adjustments may not be as perfect as the one you did in MM, just exchanging the .XML and the flipper models(visible and unvisible) from T1 to T2 is a huge improvement IMO. Needs a little tweaking afterwards (flipper strenght / swing, but this is also largely a matter of personal taste, so no setting will be perfect for everyone. I would like to better understand how the settings for the visible and the invisible flippers interact, e.g. should they be kept similar or different? I got good results by using a larger swing for the invisible flippers. Experiences / recommendations welcome!


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 Post subject: Re: Flipper shooting angle
 Post Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2014 12:50 am 
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Joined: Wed Feb 06, 2013 6:32 am
Posts: 405
Location: German
Better result you have always to use the same angle for visible and invisible Flippers.
Start your table at layer 6,8. (Know that you will have some Stucks), now time to experiment with different pegs (at some ball is very fast, at others ball gets slow). Flippers with layer 7,5 is end-result.
To get gold results for ball speed i tried sometimes 5-10 different settings.
Evers day test you will get different results, after some days in your mind you will get a better feeling. With newer tables, built after 1982 only zed models (pegs, kicker,gate.....) will bring better results.
After you have your best settings in ball speed it is time to built ball stops over playfield (surface ober extreme fast places-invisible at high 30-33, model metalic). Try this with my older mods.
You will be surprised how different the results are. Experiment a little bit, zed models will be your best friends.
These steps are more imortant before you Start your Flipper settings. And so you will see, you will geht Vetter results than in VP.
How changing scribts for flippers and slingshot - is this step understandable for all? You will also get differences with most FP.exes.
R2 exe wiil never work correct with zed settings, but dont know, why.
All seems to be so slow and Flippers are very weak. So i only work with fp1.0 exe and BAM AS a standart. All others make people more confuse with frust.
Flipper settings: More Next days.


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