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 Post subject: Re: BAM Dynamic Flipper Breakthrough !!
 Post Posted: Sat Dec 01, 2018 3:30 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jan 27, 2014 12:36 pm
Posts: 2859
Location: Ontario, Canada
Hi Terry ,
there are 2 SLAM posts under pinsimdb comments under
POTC and Medieval Madness...

Finally one of the great Table Authors has chimed in !!

I find dynamic flippers works amazingly well ....and it is just math recipe that George,Rav and I cooked up....anyone can tweak it or use their own "PreHit" recipe....


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 Post subject: Re: BAM Dynamic Flipper Breakthrough !!
 Post Posted: Sat Dec 01, 2018 3:50 pm 
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Joined: Sun Sep 13, 2015 1:16 pm
Posts: 536
Gimli wrote:
Hi Terry ,
there are 2 SLAM posts under pinsimdb comments under
POTC and Medieval Madness...

Finally one of the great Table Authors has chimed in !!

I find dynamic flippers works amazingly well ....and it is just math recipe that George,Rav and I cooked up....anyone can tweak it or use their own "PreHit" recipe....



I totally understand how frustrating it is to work hard on something that is game-changing...only to not have those who would benefit from it (or hate it) not chime in on it.

Glad you guys are getting feedback. Maybe this will lead to a more established standard for FP physics...and maybe SLAM will feel that his tables play well enough to share.

Kind of annoying that he won't release his tables because he wants all the "dicks" (that will never like FP) to be happy with his tables. Yet those of us who DO like FP and his tables will never play them because of that? Weird.


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 Post subject: Re: BAM Dynamic Flipper Breakthrough !!
 Post Posted: Sat Dec 01, 2018 11:21 pm 
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Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2012 11:12 pm
Posts: 2524
Location: Arkansas, USA
TerryRed wrote:
...Glad you guys are getting feedback. Maybe this will lead to a more established standard for FP physics...and maybe SLAM will feel that his tables play well enough to share.

Kind of annoying that he won't release his tables because he wants all the "dicks" (that will never like FP) to be happy with his tables. Yet those of us who DO like FP and his tables will never play them because of that? Weird.


I have a feeling he is holding off posting tables because he hopes he will be hired again at Heighway. I can't blame him.

George


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 Post subject: Re: BAM Dynamic Flipper Breakthrough !!
 Post Posted: Sun Dec 02, 2018 1:23 am 
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GeorgeH wrote:
TerryRed wrote:
...Glad you guys are getting feedback. Maybe this will lead to a more established standard for FP physics...and maybe SLAM will feel that his tables play well enough to share.

Kind of annoying that he won't release his tables because he wants all the "dicks" (that will never like FP) to be happy with his tables. Yet those of us who DO like FP and his tables will never play them because of that? Weird.


I have a feeling he is holding off posting tables because he hopes he will be hired again at Heighway. I can't blame him.

George


Almost no chance of that happening...

"As of April 26, 2018, Heighway Pinball had closed the doors on the factory, laid-off its employees and is facing liquidation."


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 Post subject: Re: BAM Dynamic Flipper Breakthrough !!
 Post Posted: Sun Dec 02, 2018 4:08 am 
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Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2012 11:12 pm
Posts: 2524
Location: Arkansas, USA
TerryRed wrote:
[Almost no chance of that happening...

"As of April 26, 2018, Heighway Pinball had closed the doors on the factory, laid-off its employees and is facing liquidation."


I'll be darned. I guess I missed that somehow.

George


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 Post subject: Re: BAM Dynamic Flipper Breakthrough !!
 Post Posted: Sun Dec 02, 2018 9:24 am 
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Joined: Mon Jan 27, 2014 12:36 pm
Posts: 2859
Location: Ontario, Canada
TerryRed wrote:
@SLAMT1LT

I have been screaming at SLAM to come take a look at what you guys and Rav have been doing with FP physics (and other BAM updates) forever. As we all know he isn't exactly "involved" with others in the community...and never seems to ever respond to any messages.

God knows if he likes or hates any of the Pinup


You know SLAM... the rest of us HAVE been fighting the good fight for years... for FP and for your works. I may be more on the cabinet side (and yes I also do VP stuff as well)... but I have been making FP do things NO ONE else has ever done. (PuP, and DOFLinx, MX leds,etc) The only reason I haven't done more is because I don't want to update current tables if you have newer more amazing versions...but I also don't know if you would get pissed if I ever added PuP or DOFLinx to those either.

"Community" requires actually being involved and "sharing" with others so they can learn
from you as well... not just keeping "trade secrets" to yourself.

You've got amazing stuff with your tables...and these guys (Gimli, George, Rav,etc) could have been helping you a long time ago, if you would just actually "communicate" with others.

...and yes I am being frustrated at the fact that you talk about "community", when you haven't been part of it.


...yes I have been more involved with Pinup Player, Pinup Popper (front-end), etc than I have been with FP lately...but there is only so much time I have...and being military takes me away from home for months at a time. So yes, I want to update more FP table for PuP and DOFLinx. Just a matter of time.


Thanks Terry for drawing Slam's attention to this

I know from his Facebook posts I think it was he LOVES the work you have done with DOF. Not sure of PuP, but how could he not ! It is crazy cool!

BTW we broke the news at the same instant yesterday....I was entering my post as I received yours...FP stars are aligning....now let's get this puppy bouncing


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 Post subject: Re: BAM Dynamic Flipper Breakthrough !!
 Post Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2018 6:15 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jan 27, 2014 12:36 pm
Posts: 2859
Location: Ontario, Canada
My current perception is that the current Dynamic Template that has been used in recent tables (Jaws, Medieval Madness, POTC, etc...) works very well with respect to flipper aiming

but the xml we are using causes these undesirables:
1.not enough bounce off of flippers
If we alter the bounce settings globally in xml , it like will mess with flipper accuracy and we may end up chasing our tails, try to come up with a magic recipe.

Flipper accuracy enhancement is most noticable in my opinion from a cradled ball.
This is when ball velocity are low.
We would like more bounce ( When the vertical ball velocity is not so low....so

Lets try tweaking flipper elasticity coefficient dynamically based on BallVSpeed.

If it is low then we use our standard flipper elasticiy coeff and if it is higher we increase the
elasticiy coeff.
and the ball will bounce more

I will experiment with this and get back....


2.ball skids sometimes (dampening set too high)
This is easy to fix by playing with the dampening in BAM physics tweaks as desired.
Low Dampening however will increase ball spin and perhaps throw off the flipper aiming.

I think the skidding is really just a visual thing anyways and not even noticable with a standard silver ball...it would be cool if BAM could divorce the graphics from the applied ball physics ( in other words apply a dampening filter that applies to the ball physics after the graphic algorhythm has been set...) weird thought and likely not doable...


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 Post subject: Re: BAM Dynamic Flipper Breakthrough !!
 Post Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2018 7:45 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jan 27, 2014 12:36 pm
Posts: 2859
Location: Ontario, Canada
On a total ridiculous note before I try and figure out the above...

I was working on flipper flick
https://youtu.be/8gUQbAV7D20


Rav talked about somehow using the Flipper2key...but I think you would have to use another button...

In the demo I started by coding a cheat code and can get the left flipper to flicker with "B" on the keyboard

Then I decided to try enabling flicker by pressing the opposite flipper when the other flipper is up...

For example when right flipper is up and I press left flipper then right flipper will flick and vice versa.

The one problem with this apart from it being a cheat...is you likely only want to flick when the ball is falling from above and not coming down in lane.

To accomplish that I think I would have to use dynamic coding to specify that it only applies to certain ball vectors :lol:

I know really goofy but fun never the less :shock:


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 Post subject: Re: BAM Dynamic Flipper Breakthrough !!
 Post Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2018 11:49 pm 
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Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2012 11:12 pm
Posts: 2524
Location: Arkansas, USA
Launching a cradled ball on a real world table won't be as fast as a ball being hit because the cradled ball doesn't have as much kinetic energy. To my thinking, the way it performs now on FP is relatively close to the way it should be. I admit my flipper bounce settings have been too low. I'm still figuring out how to do this. I have changed the flipper bounce settings on my mod of Iron Man. I spent quite a bit of time working on the flipper bounce. I think you will like it better although you may still not like it. I watched a lot of video of real tables and attempted to replicate what I saw. I will probably post it tomorrow. You might want to hold off until you give it a try. Of course, a cradled ball probably won't perform much differently.

George


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 Post subject: Re: BAM Dynamic Flipper Breakthrough !!
 Post Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2018 12:38 am 
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Joined: Mon Jan 27, 2014 12:36 pm
Posts: 2859
Location: Ontario, Canada
I am sure Ill love it George !
But I did play a real Indiana Jones table last week and flipper bounce was crazy, I didn't like it all.

It will be good I guess in future tables to have a menu option for lively bounce on/off


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