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 Post subject: Re: BAM Dynamic Flipper Breakthrough !!
 Post Posted: Thu Aug 30, 2018 5:23 am 
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Joined: Fri Oct 22, 2010 6:41 pm
Posts: 889
Location: France
this function seems really interesting ... but it's a bit complicated.
As i've put the mess in my installation FP, the table that i do have a completely broken physics (I think it's because .xls file that come back everytime ...)- I'm going to be interested by this topic... keep ready for many questions! :D

ps / @ GeorgeH, I tested your mod on POTO and it's great to play! (but i squint on the black spots on the bottom lights 8-) :lol: ).

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Recreated Pinball: Whirlwind ; Taxi ; Funhouse ; Jokerz ; POTO.
Original Pinball: Wipeout ; Monster-Hunter
Wip: ...


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 Post subject: Re: BAM Dynamic Flipper Breakthrough !!
 Post Posted: Thu Aug 30, 2018 8:16 am 
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Joined: Mon Jan 27, 2014 12:36 pm
Posts: 2220
Location: Ontario, Canada
Hi Drakko,
Welcome back


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 Post subject: Re: BAM Dynamic Flipper Breakthrough !!
 Post Posted: Thu Aug 30, 2018 4:14 pm 
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Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2012 11:12 pm
Posts: 1783
Location: Arkansas, USA
drakko91 wrote:
ps / @ GeorgeH, I tested your mod on POTO and it's great to play! (but i squint on the black spots on the bottom lights 8-) :lol: ).


Yea, I suppose I should have looked at that more closely. Maybe on the next version...

George


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 Post subject: Re: BAM Dynamic Flipper Breakthrough !!
 Post Posted: Fri Aug 31, 2018 3:50 am 
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Joined: Fri Oct 22, 2010 6:41 pm
Posts: 889
Location: France
Hi Gimli,
thank you and thank you also for all your tests / findings that you made - you are a little responsible for my renewed desire for make some tables. :evil: :D

ah! do not worry GeorgeH, this detail does not change anything at the table ... ;)
for me, this is the first thing that i look at, i explain to you why> when i transferred to francisco the table for he starts the script, the graphics were not finished and i had left the transparent plastic with these same black spots and although i quickly changed that and send back to the scripter of genie, Francisco sent me systematically the update on the version with the spots and this until the exit of the table! and it had become something that made us laugh a lot (viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2945) - but honestly it's an insignificant detail for 99.99% of players :roll:

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Recreated Pinball: Whirlwind ; Taxi ; Funhouse ; Jokerz ; POTO.
Original Pinball: Wipeout ; Monster-Hunter
Wip: ...


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 Post subject: Re: BAM Dynamic Flipper Breakthrough !!
 Post Posted: Fri Aug 31, 2018 7:08 am 
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Joined: Mon Jan 27, 2014 12:36 pm
Posts: 2220
Location: Ontario, Canada
This is great news Drakko !
We were hoping that this might inspire the table makers like yourself to return :D


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 Post subject: Re: BAM Dynamic Flipper Breakthrough !!
 Post Posted: Wed Sep 05, 2018 11:51 am 
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Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2012 11:12 pm
Posts: 1783
Location: Arkansas, USA
I posted a guide on how to set up dynamic flippers using Gimli's and my formula back on page 7 of this topic. I have revised the coding so the formula is exactly the same but it is easier to use now. All you need to do now is to replace the values for 50 and 29 in the following code to what you want and everything else is automatically computed. It makes it easier to test different values. Gimli thinks this version won't slow your PC down. The only way you can mess this up is to enter a value for MaxOmega that is less than or equal to the MinOmega.

Code:
   const MaxOmega  = 50  ' Omega at base of flipper.  Must be > MinOmega.
   const MinOmega  = 29  ' Omega at tip of flipper. Must be < MaxOmega.

Sub RightFlipper_prehit()
   OnPreHitFlipperSettings(RightFlipperExt)
   omegaCorrection = MaxOmega - (RightFlipperExt.ContactPoint * ((MaxOmega - MinOmega)/1.2))
      If RightFlipperExt.ContactPoint < 0.0 then RightFlipperExt.Omega = MaxOmega
      If RightFlipperExt.ContactPoint > 1.2 then RightFlipperExt.Omega = MinOmega
      If (RightFlipperExt.ContactPoint => 0.0) And (RightFlipperExt.ContactPoint =< 1.2) then
         RightFlipperExt.Omega = omegaCorrection
      End if
End Sub

Sub LeftFlipper_prehit()
   OnPreHitFlipperSettings(LeftFlipperExt)
      omegaCorrection = MaxOmega - (LeftFlipperExt.ContactPoint * ((MaxOmega - MinOmega)/1.2))
      If LeftFlipperExt.ContactPoint < 0.0 then LeftFlipperExt.Omega = MaxOmega
      If LeftFlipperExt.ContactPoint > 1.2 then LeftFlipperExt.Omega = MinOmega
      If (LeftFlipperExt.ContactPoint => 0.0) And (LeftFlipperExt.ContactPoint =< 1.2) then
         LeftFlipperExt.Omega = omegaCorrection
      End if
End Sub


George


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 Post subject: Re: BAM Dynamic Flipper Breakthrough !!
 Post Posted: Sat Dec 01, 2018 3:00 pm 
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Joined: Sun Sep 13, 2015 1:16 pm
Posts: 249
@SLAMT1LT

I have been screaming at SLAM to come take a look at what you guys and Rav have been doing with FP physics (and other BAM updates) forever. As we all know he isn't exactly "involved" with others in the community...and never seems to ever respond to any messages.

God knows if he likes or hates any of the Pinup Player stuff I've done with his tables, as he never comments directly to me or my posts about any of it.

Well he finally seems to come out of his corner of the world and take a peek at what you guys have been doing:

Quote:
Earthdate: 1st December 2018

I popped over to GoPinball yesterday, first time in just over 3 years and noticed they've been busy improving Future Pinball's notorious flipper accuracy. And so I added some interesting code created by Gimli246 to RoboCop and it does actually improve the flipper accuracy. Well done to him and anyone else involved in this.

Then I popped over to VPForums and, as usual, brain dead idiots like Chepas, make ignorant comments about the hard work Gimli246 has done.

I really, really hate the VP community and I will never make tables for VP or have any of my tables willingly converted to that pile of trash. A terrible, hateful community.

But that poisonous cesspool of putrid slime only drives me to make bigger and better pinball games for Future Pinball. And I take great pleasure in creating games that the VP fanboys will only ever have wet dreams about.

Ok, chill pill time.

I've uploaded a quick demo of my current WIP - RoboCop. I added George's flipper code and the results are extremely impressive. A very noticeable difference but at a cost of flipper bounce, which I hope he can fix.

You see....this is what the FP community is all about, everyone getting together to make FP great.

I love fighting for the underdog so I'm 100% loyal only to Future Pinball and I will be for many years to come.

2019 is going to be one hell of a year for pinball (real and virtual).



...and here's the small video test he has done with his current update to Robocop...one of my fav tables..

I also agree with him. I have tried using it on a couple of tables...and it can be tweaked nicely...its just that flipper ball bounce that we are missing (which is critical for gameplay).


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X97XDnm7XVg


You know SLAM... the rest of us HAVE been fighting the good fight for years... for FP and for your works. I may be more on the cabinet side (and yes I also do VP stuff as well)... but I have been making FP do things NO ONE else has ever done. (PuP, and DOFLinx, MX leds,etc) The only reason I haven't done more is because I don't want to update current tables if you have newer more amazing versions...but I also don't know if you would get pissed if I ever added PuP or DOFLinx to those either.

"Community" requires actually being involved and "sharing" with others so they can learn
from you as well... not just keeping "trade secrets" to yourself.

You've got amazing stuff with your tables...and these guys (Gimli, George, Rav,etc) could have been helping you a long time ago, if you would just actually "communicate" with others.

...and yes I am being frustrated at the fact that you talk about "community", when you haven't been part of it.


...yes I have been more involved with Pinup Player, Pinup Popper (front-end), etc than I have been with FP lately...but there is only so much time I have...and being military takes me away from home for months at a time. So yes, I want to update more FP table for PuP and DOFLinx. Just a matter of time.


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 Post subject: Re: BAM Dynamic Flipper Breakthrough !!
 Post Posted: Sat Dec 01, 2018 3:02 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jan 27, 2014 12:36 pm
Posts: 2220
Location: Ontario, Canada
Great News !
SlamT1LT has tried dynamic flippers and gives it his approval !
It has been a great collaborative effort !

Quote:
Excellent work George. The biggest pain in my backside has always been the accuracy of FPs flippers. Over the years, I've programed my brain to fire the flippers a millisecond sooner than I normally would to nail the shots. But noobies and the brain dead VP fanboys can't handle this, so FP has been getting a bashing. Now I always stand up for little kid being bullied and so it's been my goal over the past 10 years to make pinball games better than anyone else....and exclusivly for Future Pinball. I've pretty much figured out how to fix everything except the flippers and now, thanks to your efforts, we're getting a step closer. And Ravarcades continuing improvements to BAM are making Future Pinball stand head and shoulders above anything else. That skinny, bullied kid is growing up to be a strong and successful contender!


Terry try removing the segment of code called Bounce Control....or tweak it
as it is not needed for dynamic flippers and is exactly for changing the bounce on the flippers

You can just add Exit Sub as follows to bypass this code....

Code:
Sub OnPreHitFlipperSettings_bounceControl(FlipperExt)
Exit Sub
   If BAM_VERSION < 233 then Exit Sub
   ' Params to tweak
   const base_elasticCoef                        = 0.5  ' very bouncy flipper rubber
   const expected_ball_speed_after_hit           = 280  ' calc elasticCoef to get desired ball speed after ball hit flipper
   const minimum_elasticCoef_to_scale_fast_balls = 0.15 ' we will add this to calculated elastiCoef, so ball after hit will have aditional 5% of speed before hit
   const reduction_for_flipper_in_motion         = 0.10 ' if flipper is not in starting point, reduce elasticCoef by 10%
   const min_elasticCoef                         = 0.08 ' 2%, ball will almost glue to flipper, this is minimum value

   If FlipperExt.Hit Then
      Dim elasticCoef
      ' ball_speed_after_hit = elastic_coef * ball_speed_before_hit
      ' so, elastic_coef = expected_ball_speed_after_hit / ball_speed_before hit !
      elasticCoef = 1.0
      If expected_ball_speed_after_hit < xBAM.Ball.Speed Then elasticCoef = expected_ball_speed_after_hit / xBAM.Ball.Speed

      ' now add little bit to preserv atleast 5% of ball speed before hit (not all balls should end with 240 mm/s)
      elasticCoef = elasticCoef + minimum_elasticCoef_to_scale_fast_balls

      ' make sure, we to not have elasticCoef higher than base value
      If elasticCoef > base_elasticCoef Then elasticCoef = base_elasticCoef

      ' now, reduce elastic coef if flipper is not at StartAngle (1 deg difference or more required)
      If FlipperExt.AngleDiff > 1 Then elasticCoef = elasticCoef - reduction_for_flipper_in_motion

      ' ... finally make sure, that elasticCoef will not be "negative" or to smalll
      If elasticCoef < min_elasticCoef Then elasticCoef = min_elasticCoef

      FlipperExt.SetMaterial elasticCoef
   End If
End Sub


Last edited by Gimli on Wed Dec 05, 2018 6:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: BAM Dynamic Flipper Breakthrough !!
 Post Posted: Sat Dec 01, 2018 3:10 pm 
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Joined: Sun Sep 13, 2015 1:16 pm
Posts: 249
Gimli wrote:
Great News !
SlamT1LT has tried dynamic flippers and gives it his approval (Although he gives George the credit ;) )
I would say it has been a collaborative effort....

Quote:
Excellent work George. The biggest pain in my backside has always been the accuracy of FPs flippers. Over the years, I've programed my brain to fire the flippers a millisecond sooner than I normally would to nail the shots. But noobies and the brain dead VP fanboys can't handle this, so FP has been getting a bashing. Now I always stand up for little kid being bullied and so it's been my goal over the past 10 years to make pinball games better than anyone else....and exclusivly for Future Pinball. I've pretty much figured out how to fix everything except the flippers and now, thanks to your efforts, we're getting a step closer. And Ravarcades continuing improvements to BAM are making Future Pinball stand head and shoulders above anything else. That skinny, bullied kid is growing up to be a strong and successful contender!


Terry try removing the segment of code call Bounce Control....or tweak it
it is not needed for dynamic flippers and is exactly for changing the bounce on the flippers

You can just at Exit Sub as follows to bypass this code....

Code:
Sub OnPreHitFlipperSettings_bounceControl(FlipperExt)
Exit Sub
   If BAM_VERSION < 233 then Exit Sub
   ' Params to tweak
   const base_elasticCoef                        = 0.5  ' very bouncy flipper rubber
   const expected_ball_speed_after_hit           = 280  ' calc elasticCoef to get desired ball speed after ball hit flipper
   const minimum_elasticCoef_to_scale_fast_balls = 0.15 ' we will add this to calculated elastiCoef, so ball after hit will have aditional 5% of speed before hit
   const reduction_for_flipper_in_motion         = 0.10 ' if flipper is not in starting point, reduce elasticCoef by 10%
   const min_elasticCoef                         = 0.08 ' 2%, ball will almost glue to flipper, this is minimum value

   If FlipperExt.Hit Then
      Dim elasticCoef
      ' ball_speed_after_hit = elastic_coef * ball_speed_before_hit
      ' so, elastic_coef = expected_ball_speed_after_hit / ball_speed_before hit !
      elasticCoef = 1.0
      If expected_ball_speed_after_hit < xBAM.Ball.Speed Then elasticCoef = expected_ball_speed_after_hit / xBAM.Ball.Speed

      ' now add little bit to preserv atleast 5% of ball speed before hit (not all balls should end with 240 mm/s)
      elasticCoef = elasticCoef + minimum_elasticCoef_to_scale_fast_balls

      ' make sure, we to not have elasticCoef higher than base value
      If elasticCoef > base_elasticCoef Then elasticCoef = base_elasticCoef

      ' now, reduce elastic coef if flipper is not at StartAngle (1 deg difference or more required)
      If FlipperExt.AngleDiff > 1 Then elasticCoef = elasticCoef - reduction_for_flipper_in_motion

      ' ... finally make sure, that elasticCoef will not be "negative" or to smalll
      If elasticCoef < min_elasticCoef Then elasticCoef = min_elasticCoef

      FlipperExt.SetMaterial elasticCoef
   End If
End Sub



Thanks for that update Gimli!

Where was that post of his? Considering my last post...I guess I should have seen his response somewhere? :)


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 Post subject: Re: BAM Dynamic Flipper Breakthrough !!
 Post Posted: Sat Dec 01, 2018 3:17 pm 
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Joined: Sun Sep 13, 2015 1:16 pm
Posts: 249
....oh, and he does give you credit Gimil in the comments for that video demo he posted.


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