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 Post subject: Re: BAM - FP Physics Tweaks. [vip]
 Post Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2016 12:28 pm 
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Joined: Sat Oct 15, 2016 11:16 pm
Posts: 32
Rafal...

This dll just keeps getting better and better. Just when I thought I had the "perfect" physics settings...

Being able to see an immediate alteration with the rubber material settings is fantastic and unfortunately consuming all my time now.

Bug report: You can currently set the range of mass (and probably other things) beyond what the simulation can handle and cause the object(s) to disappear and the program to completely lock up.


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 Post subject: Re: BAM - FP Physics Tweaks. [vip]
 Post Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2016 1:22 am 
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Joined: Sat Oct 15, 2016 11:16 pm
Posts: 32
GeorgeH wrote:
Would you mind posting the rest of your *.xml file? I'd like to try it but I don't know what to use for the rest of the file.
George


George,

Here is the current XML file. I have changed the damping to the 10.0 value as it seems to help immensely with flipper action (but I may be going cross-eyed and not know which way is which anymore) and also nudge.

Some small changes to the rubber values that work well with the flippers and elsewhere without feeling like too much of a compromise with any specific object.

I have also tweaked the vari-target value since I finally got around to playing Big Indian and that needed some serious calibration. Fun EM table by the way.

I have used this XML with 5 degree Old EM style to 9 degree Modern Stern style tables and it works for me for the most part.

Enjoy!

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8"?>
<document>
<!-- Malifica Universal Real Fun Physics EM/SS Table 2016-11-07-->

<!-- Note Here Regarding Table Specific Alterations -->
<!-- Note Here Regarding Table Specific Alterations -->
<!-- Note Here Regarding Table Specific Alterations -->
<!-- Note Here Regarding Table Specific Alterations -->

<!-- Physics processing -->

<physics fps="512" threaded="1"></physics>

<!-- Settings for various objects -->
<ball mass="72.3" gravity="5300.0" damping="10.0"></ball>

<flipper mass="20150.0" omega="43.0" moeMethod="0"
leftXoff="0" leftYoff="1500" leftZoff="0"
rightXoff="0" rightYoff="1500" rightZoff="0"></flipper>

<bumper impulse="90.0" impulseRandomness="0" vectorRandomness="6"></bumper>
<autoplunger mass="20000.0" force="60000.0"></autoplunger>
<diverter mass="10000.0" omega="33.0"></diverter>
<gate mass="5.0" gravity="2500.0" damping="0.25"></gate>
<kicker impulse="1000.0" vukImpulse="1400.0" impulseRandomness="2" vectorRandomness="1"></kicker>
<plunger mass="20000.0" force="30000.0"></plunger>
<slingshot impulse="700.0" impulseRandomness="15" vectorRandomness="3"></slingshot>
<spindisk mass="10000.0" angularDamp="0.33" linearDamp="0.25"></spindisk>

<spinner mass="90.0" gravity="500.0" angularDamp="0.25" angularAccel="5.25"
spinDampLoose="0.55" spinBackLoose="1.70"
spinDampNorm="0.75" spinBackNorm="1.80"
spinDampTight="0.95" spinBackTight="1.90"></spinner>
<emkicker mass="10000.0" omega="80.0"></emkicker>
<varitarget mass="500.0" damping="0.9" tension="3.0" return="15.0"></varitarget>
<magnet impulse="10.0" impulseRandomness="2"></magnet>

<!-- Nugde Settings -->
<nudge impulse="80.0" impulseRandomness="25.0" warningLevel="250" leftAngle="60" upAngle="0" rightAngle="320"
vectorRandomness="5" visualDistance="1" waitPeriod="300" maxBallVelocity="500.0"></nudge>

<!-- Materials Settings -->

<!-- Default Materal Settings to act as defaults incase we forget to set an object during development.
There shouldn't be any objects set to this material so these are just a fail safe values -->
<defaultMat softnessCoef="0.02" elasticCoef="0.1" staticFriction="0.02" kineticFriction="0.02"></defaultMat>

<!-- Material Settings for surfaces marked as playfields -->
<playfieldMat softnessCoef="0.03" elasticCoef="0.1" staticFriction="0.025" kineticFriction="0.015"></playfieldMat>

<!-- Primary Material Types -->
<metalMat softnessCoef="0.01" elasticCoef="0.10" staticFriction="0.01" kineticFriction="0.01"></metalMat>
<plasticMat softnessCoef="0.02" elasticCoef="0.20" staticFriction="0.02" kineticFriction="0.01"></plasticMat>
<woodMat softnessCoef="0.03" elasticCoef="0.15" staticFriction="0.03" kineticFriction="0.02"></woodMat>
<rubberHardMat softnessCoef="0.08" elasticCoef="0.42" staticFriction="0.04" kineticFriction="0.055"></rubberHardMat>
<rubberIntMat softnessCoef="0.10" elasticCoef="0.52" staticFriction="0.05" kineticFriction="0.065"></rubberIntMat>
<rubberSoftMat softnessCoef="0.12" elasticCoef="0.62" staticFriction="0.06" kineticFriction="0.075"></rubberSoftMat>

<!-- Object Specific Material Settings -->
<gateMat softnessCoef="0.05" elasticCoef="0.65" staticFriction="0.00001" kineticFriction="0.00001"></gateMat>
<kickerMat softnessCoef="0.01" elasticCoef="0.05" staticFriction="0.80" kineticFriction="0.80"></kickerMat>
<rampMat softnessCoef="0.01" elasticCoef="0.01" staticFriction="0.01" kineticFriction="0.01"></rampMat>
<plungerMat softnessCoef="0.04" elasticCoef="0.55" staticFriction="0.02" kineticFriction="0.02"></plungerMat>
<spindiskMat softnessCoef="0.05" elasticCoef="0.50" staticFriction="1.50" kineticFriction="2.00"></spindiskMat>

</document>


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 Post subject: Re: BAM - FP Physics Tweaks. [vip]
 Post Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2016 1:44 am 
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Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2012 11:12 pm
Posts: 2781
Location: Arkansas, USA
Rafal,

I've been working on a table and just started working on the physics. I opened a table that had an *.xml file with it. I noticed many of the settings were imported from the *.xml file although the following material categories all had the parameters set to 0. None of the parameters were set to 0 in the *.xml file.

plasticMat
rubberHardMat
rubberIntMat
rubberSoftMat
gateMat
kickerMat
rampMat
plungerMat
spindiskMat

Would you import these settings also?

George


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 Post subject: Re: BAM - FP Physics Tweaks. [vip]
 Post Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2016 2:15 am 
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Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2012 11:12 pm
Posts: 2781
Location: Arkansas, USA
malifica wrote:
GeorgeH wrote:
Would you mind posting the rest of your *.xml file? I'd like to try it but I don't know what to use for the rest of the file.
George


George,

Here is the current XML file. I have changed the damping to the 10.0 value as it seems to help immensely with flipper action (but I may be going cross-eyed and not know which way is which anymore) and also nudge.

Some small changes to the rubber values that work well with the flippers and elsewhere without feeling like too much of a compromise with any specific object.

I have also tweaked the vari-target value since I finally got around to playing Big Indian and that needed some serious calibration. Fun EM table by the way.

I have used this XML with 5 degree Old EM style to 9 degree Modern Stern style tables and it works for me for the most part.

Enjoy!


I like it. I'm working on a table right now that has a steep ramp. This XML file appears to help with the ramps. I may have to change the ball characteristics but it plays well. Is it OK if I use it on a table that I plan to post on pinsimdb? I'll give your credit.

By the way, what table slope do you normally use with this?

George


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 Post subject: Re: BAM - FP Physics Tweaks. [vip]
 Post Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2016 2:44 am 
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Joined: Sat Oct 15, 2016 11:16 pm
Posts: 32
George, Feel free to use (and modify) the XML file however you like.

For tables with ramps I run slope at 7.5 to 7.8 usually.


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 Post subject: Re: BAM - FP Physics Tweaks. [vip]
 Post Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2016 4:53 pm 
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Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2012 11:12 pm
Posts: 2781
Location: Arkansas, USA
malifica wrote:
George, Feel free to use (and modify) the XML file however you like.

For tables with ramps I run slope at 7.5 to 7.8 usually.


Thanks,

Trying others physics helps me get out of a paradigm mind set.

George


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 Post subject: Re: BAM - FP Physics Tweaks. [vip]
 Post Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2016 6:27 pm 
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Joined: Mon Mar 25, 2013 4:02 pm
Posts: 1034
Update.
- fixed broken light position in new renderer.
- added physics value chacking. (mass and all values are greater than zero) [@malifica: bug fixed)
- added "Newton Damping" - damping value from newton lib. FP sets it to 0. You will probably keep it =0. It is only for testing and i will probably remove it.
- ball-stop-key - in "Physics Tweak" menu you can assigne key to stop all balls on table. This key is not stored, so after restart if you want to use it, you need to set it.

With that "ball-stop-key" i try to see what happend if i put on middle of playfield ball. Result: ball will not slide down, but will not start to rolling. Strange. It looks like there is no "phisics interactions" with playfield. I'm little disapointed.

GeorgeH wrote:
...I noticed many of the settings were imported from the *.xml file although the following material categories all had the parameters set to 0. None of the parameters were set to 0 in the *.xml file.

plasticMat
rubberHardMat
rubberIntMat
rubberSoftMat
gateMat
kickerMat
rampMat
plungerMat
spindiskMat
...

I checked it and all works fine.
Maybe it is again problem with Pause key used to pause FP and display BAM menu?

@Gimli:
I don't see way how to calc custom/fake "ball-spin".

Question: What to do next?
- i can add more params from XML, but it is not easy task. It is also not "game changer feature".
- i can add flippers min/max angle to change it from menu.
- we can change "flipper model": different geomethry? change top surface from flat to convex / concave?
- we change "flipper" rotation speed. Right now flipper rotation speed is constant. We can create more complicated flippers. Like in "unity pinball".

_________________
http://www.ravarcade.pl
Better Arcade Mode
current BAM version: v1.5-289, released: May 10, 2020


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 Post subject: Re: BAM - FP Physics Tweaks. [vip]
 Post Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2016 7:53 pm 
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Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2012 11:12 pm
Posts: 2781
Location: Arkansas, USA
ravarcade wrote:
GeorgeH wrote:
...I noticed many of the settings were imported from the *.xml file although the following material categories all had the parameters set to 0. None of the parameters were set to 0 in the *.xml file.

plasticMat
rubberHardMat
rubberIntMat
rubberSoftMat
gateMat
kickerMat
rampMat
plungerMat
spindiskMat
...

I checked it and all works fine.
Maybe it is again problem with Pause key used to pause FP and display BAM menu?


I can open BAM with pause of FP game and open BAM. I can also open BAM with just the ` key. Either way I still get all the parameters that I listed set to 0. Why do these things always happen to me?

ravarcade wrote:
Question: What to do next?


Is there a way to save XML parameters after you change them? It would probably be best to save an XML file with a slightly different name than the table. If we had that, we could manually replace the XML files that are saved into ZIP files.

ravarcade wrote:
- i can add more params from XML, but it is not easy task. It is also not "game changer feature".?


You added more parameters that I requested.

ravarcade wrote:
- i can add flippers min/max angle to change it from menu.


It would be nice to be able to adjust the "start angle" and "swing" of the flippers that are in the FP editor. This might be difficult because the table builder can add any number of flippers to a table. Plus Zed tables and Blue's new flipper mod tables use double flippers. You would have to be able to select each flipper and change it separately. Can you do that? Changing all the flippers with the same settings won't work.

ravarcade wrote:
- we can change "flipper model": different geomethry? change top surface from flat to convex / concave?


Not sure. Check with Blue.

ravarcade wrote:
- we change "flipper" rotation speed. Right now flipper rotation speed is constant. We can create more complicated flippers. Like in "unity pinball".


Sounds interesting.

George


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 Post subject: Re: BAM - FP Physics Tweaks. [vip]
 Post Posted: Thu Nov 10, 2016 4:32 am 
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Joined: Mon Mar 25, 2013 4:02 pm
Posts: 1034
GeorgeH wrote:
I can open BAM with pause of FP game and open BAM. I can also open BAM with just the ` key. Either way I still get all the parameters that I listed set to 0. Why do these things always happen to me.


Please send me XML or link to pinsimdb with that table and not working xml.

-----
So next things will be:
- Flippers min/max angle - for every filpper different set of values.
- Flipper activation/deactivation omega (move speed) in time characteristic.

_________________
http://www.ravarcade.pl
Better Arcade Mode
current BAM version: v1.5-289, released: May 10, 2020


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 Post subject: Re: BAM - FP Physics Tweaks. [vip]
 Post Posted: Thu Nov 10, 2016 6:08 pm 
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Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2012 11:12 pm
Posts: 2781
Location: Arkansas, USA
ravarcade wrote:
GeorgeH wrote:
I can open BAM with pause of FP game and open BAM. I can also open BAM with just the ` key. Either way I still get all the parameters that I listed set to 0. Why do these things always happen to me.


Please send me XML or link to pinsimdb with that table and not working xml.

...


I decided to try deleting the version of BAM I am using and download a new "BAM_v1.4-134" from your web site. I installed it and then downloaded your latest "BAM.dll" dated 11/10/16. It works!!!!

I don't know what was wrong with my old set up. I am sure I was using "BAM_v1.4-134" ...But it is working now!!!

George


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