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 Post subject: Jumpy Physics on BAM - XMLs do not make a difference
 Post Posted: Tue Nov 05, 2019 7:53 am 
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Joined: Tue Nov 05, 2019 7:41 am
Posts: 6
Hello everybody, first time posting here!

I'll be quick: I recently assembled my own arcade cabinet and added pinballs to it, still tinkering. Finally managed a setup for BAM, started adding pinballs. The "oldest ones" are working good, I can see the physics XML being loaded in the BAM menu, and the physics do change if I swap the XMLs around.

Now. With the most recent releases (for example Slamt1lt's), I do not see the XML being loaded in the BAM menu, instead I see:

Physics: from VBS script.

I sent a mail to Smalt1lt and he confirmed this behaviour is normal, but my physics on screen are nowhere close to the ones on his demo videos (Halloween in this case), the ball jumps around and is almost glitchy at times.

I tried moving the XML out of the folder, changing its name, replacing it with other physics XMLs, nothing changed, the table behaves exactly the same, it's as if I was running the default physics but I have no way to check.

Note: I can clearly see how the physics values do not changes from BAM menu-> DEV options, they do not correspond to the values in the XML.

Any ideas about what it could be?

Thank you everybody already!

Foxer

EDIT: THIS CAN BE SOLVED BY TURNING VSYNC ON AND KEEPING THE FRAMERATE LOCKED TO 60.


Last edited by Foxer on Thu Nov 07, 2019 8:16 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Jumpy Physics on BAM - XMLs do not make a difference
 Post Posted: Tue Nov 05, 2019 12:29 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jan 27, 2014 12:36 pm
Posts: 3051
Location: Ontario, Canada
Foxer wrote:
I tried moving the XML out of the folder, changing its name, replacing it with other physics XMLs, nothing changed, the table behaves exactly the same, it's as if I was running the default physics but I have no way to check.

Note: I can clearly see how the physics values do not changes from BAM menu-> DEV options, they do not correspond to the values in the XML.

Any ideas about what it could be?
Foxer


The xml that is in the script trumps all external xml files.
So if you wish to use an external one, then simply delete the one in the script

the one in the script will look like this:

Code:
'=============================== PHYSICS XML ===========================
'<?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8"?>
'<document>
'  <physics slope="9" fps="256" threaded="0"></physics>
'  <ball newtonDamping="0" mass="85" gravity="4000" damping="0.25"></ball>
'  <flipper rotationSpeedChart="{0.0,100.0}[0.0,100.0]" newtonDamping="1" releaseOmega="18" mass="20000" omega="30" moeMethod="0"
'           leftXoff="0" leftYoff="0" leftZoff="0"
'           rightXoff="0" rightYoff="0" rightZoff="0"></flipper>
'  <bumper impulse="85.0" impulseRandomness="10" vectorRandomness="6"></bumper>
'  <autoplunger mass="20000.0" force="60000.0"></autoplunger>
'  <diverter mass="10000.0" omega="33.0"></diverter>
'  <gate mass="2.0" gravity="4500.0" damping="0.25"></gate>
'  <kicker impulse="800.0" vukImpulse="1300.0" impulseRandomness="4" vectorRandomness="1"></kicker>
'  <plunger mass="20000.0" force="30000.0"></plunger>
'  <slingshot impulse="480.0" impulseRandomness="15" vectorRandomness="10"></slingshot>
'  <spindisk mass="10000.0" angularDamp="0.33" linearDamp="0.25"></spindisk>
'  <spinner mass="45.0" gravity="100.0" angularDamp="0.5" angularAccel="5.0"
'           spinDampLoose="0.325" spinBackLoose="2.850"
'           spinDampNorm="0.575"  spinBackNorm="3.250"
'           spinDampTight="0.750" spinBackTight="3.500"></spinner>
'  <emkicker mass="10000.0" omega="80.0"></emkicker>
'  <varitarget mass="100.0" damping="0.5" tension="3.0" return="15.0"></varitarget>
'  <magnet impulse="10.0" impulseRandomness="2"></magnet>
'  <nudge impulse="100.0" impulseRandomness="25.0" warningLevel="160" leftAngle="65" upAngle="0.0" rightAngle="295"
'         vectorRandomness="4" visualDistance="2" waitPeriod="300" maxBallVelocity="1000.0"></nudge>
'  <defaultMat softnessCoef="0.02" elasticCoef="0.1" staticFriction="0.01" kineticFriction="0.02"></defaultMat>
'  <playfieldMat softnessCoef="0.03" elasticCoef="0.2" staticFriction="0.01" kineticFriction="0.02"></playfieldMat>
'  <metalMat softnessCoef="0.01" elasticCoef="0.05" staticFriction="0.01" kineticFriction="0.02"></metalMat>
'  <woodMat softnessCoef="0.03" elasticCoef="0.2" staticFriction="0.01" kineticFriction="0.02"></woodMat>
'  <plasticMat softnessCoef="0.02" elasticCoef="0.25" staticFriction="0.01" kineticFriction="0.02"></plasticMat>
'  <rubberHardMat softnessCoef="0.04" elasticCoef="0.4" staticFriction="0.01" kineticFriction="0.02"></rubberHardMat>
'  <rubberIntMat softnessCoef="0.05" elasticCoef="0.5" staticFriction="0.01" kineticFriction="0.02"></rubberIntMat>
'  <rubberSoftMat softnessCoef="0.06" elasticCoef="0.6" staticFriction="0.01" kineticFriction="0.02"></rubberSoftMat>
'  <gateMat softnessCoef="0.05" elasticCoef="0.66" staticFriction="0" kineticFriction="0"></gateMat>
'  <kickerMat softnessCoef="0.01" elasticCoef="0.05" staticFriction="0.8" kineticFriction="0.8"></kickerMat>
'  <rampMat softnessCoef="0.01" elasticCoef="0.05" staticFriction="0.01" kineticFriction="0.02"></rampMat>
'  <plungerMat softnessCoef="0.04" elasticCoef="0.4" staticFriction="0.01" kineticFriction="0.02"></plungerMat>
'  <spindiskMat softnessCoef="0.05" elasticCoef="0.5" staticFriction="2" kineticFriction="2"></spindiskMat>
'</document>
'=============================== PHYSICS XML ===========================


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 Post subject: Re: Jumpy Physics on BAM - XMLs do not make a difference
 Post Posted: Wed Nov 06, 2019 7:47 am 
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Joined: Tue Nov 05, 2019 7:41 am
Posts: 6
Thank you Gimli, that explains a lot. I was able to compare the values and it appears everything is loaded properly, but the game is still much jumpier than it should be.

I started digging and tinkering with the various options.

Am I supposed to slow down tables with the slow motion ratio option?

For example, I get 150+ FPS on almost every table, with the physics value (F9 overlay) being anywhere between 80-140.

I tried using it and things do feel a little more manageable (60 FPS feels too slow and 120 FPS feels okay) , but I can't figure out if that's supposed to be a standard setting or not.

Should the ball behave normally without slow motion ratio on? Am I risking making the tables unplayable?


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 Post subject: Re: Jumpy Physics on BAM - XMLs do not make a difference
 Post Posted: Wed Nov 06, 2019 9:26 am 
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Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2012 11:12 pm
Posts: 2778
Location: Arkansas, USA
Where is the "slow motion ratio option"? I am not sure what you are talking about.

Try checking "Vertical Sync" on the "Video / Rendering Options" screen. It might help.


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 Post subject: Re: Jumpy Physics on BAM - XMLs do not make a difference
 Post Posted: Wed Nov 06, 2019 9:54 am 
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Joined: Tue Nov 05, 2019 7:41 am
Posts: 6
GeorgeH wrote:
Where is the "slow motion ratio option"? I am not sure what you are talking about.

Try checking "Vertical Sync" on the "Video / Rendering Options" screen. It might help.


The option is in the BAM menu in-game:
DEV Options -> Physics Tweaks

I'll try running Vsync and report back to see if it improved the ball's behaviour.


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 Post subject: Re: Jumpy Physics on BAM - XMLs do not make a difference
 Post Posted: Wed Nov 06, 2019 11:20 am 
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Joined: Mon Jan 27, 2014 12:36 pm
Posts: 3051
Location: Ontario, Canada
150 fps !
Nice your system may be playing too fast ?
Try using single core processing in FP settings ?
Also go to slams Help section on his site for his recommended FP settings


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 Post subject: Re: Jumpy Physics on BAM - XMLs do not make a difference
 Post Posted: Wed Nov 06, 2019 1:54 pm 
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Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2012 11:12 pm
Posts: 2778
Location: Arkansas, USA
Gimli wrote:
150 fps !
Nice your system may be playing too fast ?
Try using single core processing in FP settings ?
Also go to slams Help section on his site for his recommended FP settings


The frame rate goes that high when you don't have "Vertical Sync" checked.


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 Post subject: Re: Jumpy Physics on BAM - XMLs do not make a difference
 Post Posted: Wed Nov 06, 2019 2:03 pm 
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Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2012 11:12 pm
Posts: 2778
Location: Arkansas, USA
Foxer wrote:
GeorgeH wrote:
Where is the "slow motion ratio option"? I am not sure what you are talking about.


The option is in the BAM menu in-game:
DEV Options -> Physics Tweaks


I looked it up. The "slow motion ratio" is only used to record video in slow motion.

I don't think that will help but you could try it. I think checking VSync will fix it.


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 Post subject: Re: Jumpy Physics on BAM - XMLs do not make a difference
 Post Posted: Wed Nov 06, 2019 3:42 pm 
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Joined: Sun Mar 10, 2019 5:13 pm
Posts: 197
That's strange all my tables with Slam's scripted physics work great.

As stated there is no reason to have an external XML file.

Could it be you made the table slope way too high?

I know Slam likes to set them around 7-7.2 and I usually bump the slope to 7.5-7.75. However if you're using the old mentality of Future Pinball and maxing out the table slope that's were you might see the issue.

Aside from that no reason i can think that you have "bouncy" ball. Here's some gameplay from my pincab. I have Vsync on and have settings set to max in Future Pinball running a GTX980 GPU



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 Post subject: Re: Jumpy Physics on BAM - XMLs do not make a difference
 Post Posted: Thu Nov 07, 2019 8:16 am 
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Joined: Tue Nov 05, 2019 7:41 am
Posts: 6
WE SOLVED IT!

The problem is indeed VSYNC: it MUST be on or the physics will start to behave strangely.

got a solid 60 FPS and every table is much, much better to play now. Incredible.

I'll edit the first post so it can help in the future.

Thank you everybody!


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