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 Post subject: Re: Join the squad.
 Post Posted: Sat Jul 20, 2013 1:09 am 
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Joined: Wed Feb 27, 2013 12:31 am
Posts: 93
FP really needs a large dedicated team to build tables, its sad to see so many individuals starting tables by themsevles only to see them getting abandoned soon after when they realize that tables require a huge amount of work/time.

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 Post subject: Re: Join the squad.
 Post Posted: Sat Jul 20, 2013 2:27 am 
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Joined: Mon Feb 27, 2012 10:39 am
Posts: 1908
Just speaking for myself here, but it is not necessarily the huge amount of time taken to build a table which is a problem. When I first made big spender, I had a thread of 300 more posts, people were curious back then and the conversation about building table where quite interesting.

The more we talked about it, the more I wanted to push it. Nowadays, I can't even make a table that generated more than 50 posts, which I consider kinda lame when you know all the time it takes to make original stuff.

I know it is not a popularity contest, bust most of the people try to be nice and reply politely the same thing over and over again. I don't say it is a general thing to all topics. I just read that it is a tendency when I look at the thread of my tables. I understand it like the signal that my act is old and tired and that renewing myself have reached it's limit.

so when you gotta go...

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 Post subject: Re: Join the squad.
 Post Posted: Sat Jul 20, 2013 4:05 am 
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Joined: Sat Jul 17, 2010 2:33 am
Posts: 440
Well, people are too nice here. Is there any rating for PinSim on a table that isn't 5 stars? :)

I think the problem here is we are starting to reach the limits of FP, and some of us are moving on to new challenges. We've seen this with VP, and now it's starting to happen here. The amount of knowledge needed to build tables are starting to get beyond even a lot of devs, and a lot of people are not even trying anymore because it's so much that needs to be learned, and then even more time doing it. Building a table, and scripting, models,rules, dmd, light design, audio...

It would help if FP was easier to use, and not so limiting, which frustrates the hell out of me. This is such a anal program, but then, look who developed it...

Lastly, I find myself bored and annoyed at the same time. To spend all that time making a game, and then have it play like normal FP crap seems to be just a waste of time. You put so much love into a design, work so hard on it, and then be stuck with barely flash grade physics (and bad flash grade at that) just sort of ruins the entire experience.

I was hoping this Unity setup was going to work out, but it seems it will be a very long ways off, and you know the VPinMAME people will take it over anyway.

I've been thinking about using one of the latest generation game systems and see if they are up to snuff. GameGlobe may not be good enough, but Project Spark looks quite good, and I hope to be beta testing it soon. Of course building a pinball machine will not be easy, especially the physics part, but then, look at what FP can now do, right? :)

If enough people get together and work out a proper system, I'm sure we could do better than FP with enough effort. Anyone have win8 by chance? :)


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 Post subject: Re: Join the squad.
 Post Posted: Sat Jul 20, 2013 6:02 am 
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Joined: Wed Feb 27, 2013 12:31 am
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HappyCab wrote:
Nowadays, I can't even make a table that generated more than 50 posts, which I consider kinda lame when you know all the time it takes to make original stuff.

thats why first and formost make a table because you want it, if others are interested then thats just a bonus.

shvmr wrote:
The amount of knowledge needed to build tables are starting to get beyond even a lot of devs, and a lot of people are not even trying anymore because it's so much that needs to be learned, and then even more time doing it. Building a table, and scripting, models,rules, dmd, light design, audio...


a large build team would solve that, each person would only have to invest a small amount of time.many hands make light work.

shvmr wrote:
It would help if FP was easier to use,

true that, a 3d editor + rom support would make things 10x easier/faster.

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 Post subject: Re: Join the squad.
 Post Posted: Sat Jul 20, 2013 8:24 am 
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Posts: 1908
regarding PROJECT SPARK... here is what I caught mostly
"There will be an open list where players will need to flag objectionable content for further review by Microsoft..."

or if you prefer..."copyrights anyone?"


how many guys have quit since the beginning? look at all the names of contributors in the pinsimdb member list...sphere, ruckage, roney...etc...

I am sorry but BAM, pinDMD and Ledwiz are nice additions to have as an eye candy
the real problem had not been scratched yet. Give it a couple of years...and if no table maker are interested anymore, everyone will experience the real pain.

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 Post subject: Re: Join the squad.
 Post Posted: Sat Jul 20, 2013 12:34 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jul 17, 2010 2:15 am
Posts: 976
That was a great post steve, lots of honesty in that, though I don't necessarily agree with the conclusion. Very much my imho, but i think People gravitate towards the flavour of the moment, and right now, its the big titles that seem to gather so much attention. Originals which you specialize in, are generally speaking in a downturn but this is cyclical, we saw the same thing in FP and VP years ago when a few incredible originals were released they were the focus point, then people's attention focused on the recreations. But as we've seen, when an excellent original is put out, people do notice and then the seesaw flips back towards the originals again. We saw it in both FP and VP community before and I am sure we will see it again.

Ironically the numbers don't lie, originals are the future for the simple reason that there is a certain limited number of recreations people want and we are heading towards that limit. After that, what will attract most of their attention? Those great new originals.

I think it is true that most FP Add-ons are window dressing (but fantastic window dressing!!!) but it seems that with these items you listed and with other cool stuff like the FP models editor, it seems people find a way to provide the FP community with more possibilities than we thought plausible and I don't think the end is that near. i look at what has been done in VP with the BMPR mods and how much improvements that has meant to vp physics and if someone figures out a way to use something like this in FP, the sky is the limit.

My take anyways...

Rob


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 Post subject: Re: Join the squad.
 Post Posted: Mon Jul 22, 2013 1:16 am 
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Joined: Wed Feb 27, 2013 12:31 am
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HappyCab wrote:
Give it a couple of years...and if no table maker are interested anymore, everyone will experience the real pain.

when pinballarcade is released for the PC i can see a drop in interest for FP.

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 Post subject: Re: Join the squad.
 Post Posted: Mon Jul 22, 2013 3:25 am 
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HappyCab wrote:
regarding PROJECT SPARK... here is what I caught mostly
"There will be an open list where players will need to flag objectionable content for further review by Microsoft..."

or if you prefer..."copyrights anyone?"


how many guys have quit since the beginning? look at all the names of contributors in the pinsimdb member list...sphere, ruckage, roney...etc...

I am sorry but BAM, pinDMD and Ledwiz are nice additions to have as an eye candy
the real problem had not been scratched yet. Give it a couple of years...and if no table maker are interested anymore, everyone will experience the real pain.


Hy Steve,
Maybe it is a stupid question but what the hell is PROJECT SPARK? Maybe I missed a lot of information because I don't hang around that often any more. But I really don't know what that is.


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 Post subject: Re: Join the squad.
 Post Posted: Mon Jul 22, 2013 6:33 am 
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Joined: Sat Jul 17, 2010 2:33 am
Posts: 440
Rom.
From Wiki:

Project Spark is an "Open World Digital Canvas" game-creation ongoing service for the Xbox One, Xbox 360 and Windows 8 created by Team Dakota, under Microsoft Studios (publisher). In Project Spark the user is provided with a set of tools that allow for creation of personalised video games and other digital applications (such as a functioning keyboard) with seamless platform communication between the saved projects. The game was announced during Microsoft's E3 2013 press event, and aims to bridge the gap between game design and the creative community with it's visual coding language that makes the process quick and simple, yet remains powerful and capable of bringing the users imagination to life. The game/toolset is designed to be community driven, in that there is no stand alone campaign mode, instead the user will be able to download the shared work of other users and play through their work and vice versa.

While there is no stand alone campaign, there is a single player experience in the Crossroads mode of Project Spark which resembles a choose your own adventurebook. The player will be prompted to make decisions that will shape the game, such as setting, time of day and quest specifics. The mode has been designed to provide a playable game with minimal input, to give players somewhere to start, or a simplified version of the toolkit. You can also choose to create a game using the full capabilities of the editor (full toolset mode).


Microsoft is keeping most of it under wraps, but is extremely powerful from the Videos I have saw, and capable of some pretty incredible things, as well as multiple game formats.
It will be available for both Xbox1, Xbox 360, and Windows 8 (win 7 will be down the road) Any games made will work automatically on all 3, you can edit and play on a xbox even if the original was made on Win8 etc.

Here's a Gamespot video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=12AkA_FRwqg

The program is free to play, and the main program is free to download. (There will be DLC though) It should be out at the end of the year. The physics look very good so far (A ball on a ramp demo looked far better than FP), but there may be limitations. You can build anything you want out of elements from existing models, someone built a huge mech out of pieces used from the houses models, but it's a different way to build than what we are all use to.

The visual coding system is what excites me. (They refer to it as Brains in the Video) It seems to be very powerful, and looks very easy to use, as it was made for people who do not know scripting.

I have a very good chance of being on the beta by the looks of it, so I will let everyone know then if they are interested.


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 Post subject: Re: Join the squad.
 Post Posted: Mon Jul 22, 2013 7:46 am 
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Joined: Fri Jul 02, 2010 4:32 am
Posts: 1695
Yes, it's a great tool but my main concern is always the same. This will rely on another proprietary, not open software :(

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