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 Post subject: Shape/Vertex Animation
 Post Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2015 4:29 pm 
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see bellow

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Last edited by HappyCab on Wed Jul 29, 2015 7:13 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Bypassing Milkshape to obtain ms3d?
 Post Posted: Wed Jul 29, 2015 12:08 am 
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again...see bellow

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Last edited by HappyCab on Wed Jul 29, 2015 7:14 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Bypassing Milkshape to obtain ms3d?
 Post Posted: Wed Jul 29, 2015 7:12 am 
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Here is the first test.

Simple cubes. 2 nulls constraint to extremities

Attachment:
test_vertexAnimation_001.zip


the idea is to create a bunch of 3 seconds sequences with a character (facial expression, fight move, Idle....Die...) convert them as drop targets using all the same XY position on a table.

the first and last frames of the drop targets will be the entire model dropped under the table so it can be replace by a idle dummy toy at runtime.


Please check performance and report here. This is the first of numerous tests. Each time I will increment the number of polygons per models, number of bones/nulls to animate the object, amount of model on table and number of frame per animation, to see where is the limit of FP regarding shape animation.


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 Post subject: Re: Shape/Vertex Animation
 Post Posted: Wed Jul 29, 2015 2:05 pm 
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I had no problems on my i7 8gb laptop with Intel HD graphics 5000. I was constantly getting 90 to 97 FPS.

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 Post subject: Re: Shape/Vertex Animation
 Post Posted: Wed Jul 29, 2015 5:11 pm 
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Ok test 002

Flapping bat... 500 polygons, 7 bones
Attachment:
test_vertexAnimation_002.zip


I didn't put too much effort in the animation so please don't mind. Again report performance.
I think I am on to something...

This was made with the FREE XSI mod tool which is a 3D modeler/editor available to the mass and well known to mod a lot of actual video game. It has the same power as softimage itself but you cannot do any render..which is not needed anyway here..

I have also sent an email to a couple of great mind here because for the concept of switching sequences, I need to know exactly how much millisecond last 1 frame of animation for a drop timer. SolenoidPulse and popdown having different speed also.

If you have tackle with the guts of a model before and know the answer please let me know.


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 Post subject: Re: Shape/Vertex Animation
 Post Posted: Wed Jul 29, 2015 5:35 pm 
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I was getting mostly 98 to 105 fps with test #2.

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 Post subject: Re: Shape/Vertex Animation
 Post Posted: Wed Jul 29, 2015 6:45 pm 
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@HappyCab:
I tested both files and did some my "internal" tests. I will give you little different POV. This my give you better knowlage what to expect:
1. FP pre-calcs all animations when table is loaded.
Good things about this:
- there is 0 cpu usage for replaying animation. Drawning animated model is exacly same as not animated. So you will not have any performance issues with animations.
- there is no problem with number of bones or how complicated animation is. At worst it will just load little slower.

Bad things:
- it eats a lot of gpu memory. It means that if you have 1 3D model, FP will create in gfx ram hundrets of models. (and when animation is played it will just switch between that stored models).

Now math on that 2 tests. Because i don't know how gfx card will store data in memory for normal FP models, i made calculation based on how i store data in my new renderer.
First test (cube):
- FP generates 100 models/frames
- In one model i have 36 vertices. Why so many (not 8)? Because every vertex is used for 3 sides of qube and for every side it will have differen "normal vector". More: same vertex may be used more than 3 times, because every side of qube is dived to triangles. Anyway... we have 36 vertices.
- BAM/NewRenderer for every vertex need 32 bytes, also for every triangle need more data (for index buffer)
Total: frames * vertices * 32 = 100 * 36 * 32 = 112.5 kB

Second test (bat):
- again 100 frames
- 1506 vertices
Total: 100*1506*32 = 4.6 MB

Please remember, that when BAM uses NewRenderer in GPU RAM is stored also "stander FP vertex data" same as for normal rendering mode. So "bat" eats more more memory than that 4.6MB.

I'm not sure if you did in both cases animation with same amoung of frames/time or FP creates always 100 frames. This need to be verified.

Small tip: FP sends to GPU all models. Not used on table too. So it is good to remove not need models from table.
Example: Test table without yours models have: 577118 vertices (~ 17.6MB), with qubes: 580718 vertices (~17.7MB), with bat: 727718 vertices (~ 22.2MB)

One more thing:
I think it is possible to do real skinning-animation processed on GPU in real time, but outside FP rendering (in NewRenderer). I have good idea how to do this. So if you realy need to have long, complicated, smooth animations with high polly models and "save" some memory... lets say it can be done.

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 Post subject: Re: Shape/Vertex Animation
 Post Posted: Wed Jul 29, 2015 7:09 pm 
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rav...let's do it...I will provide any required animation needed to test any theory of yours..

So to answer your question, NO FP don't create 100 frame animation, it was just my setup if XSI when I exported the model as SMD (halflife engine).

I was planning on having a lot more model on the same table...but if you say that each frame is stored as a different model...it is no use! as it will become a lot gpu hungry in no time...

What about my cowboy in shootanza? To me, they are only 5 toys parts animated with scripting (moveTo) at runtime (or so I beleive!!). Do FP also precalculate all animations and Create a static model at each givien position for each frame of animation? if this is the case...this would be insane!!!

If a better way would be to "Overlay" any animation in BAM directly I am ok with that...I mean I also thought that in the case of the Robot invasion and DarkQuest hologram, it could be more fluid to do it as an overlay directly in BAM maybe...Meaning of course that if a player open the table directly in FP he wouldn't see it.

Actually any animation is limited, even simple image sequences. When I created DarkQuest, I was restraint to 800 images total for all animations, because FP started to freak Out after that. Imagine If I could have use 800 little video instead...that could be called when needed only...not precalculated..

Anyway...Let me know if you think about something..we are a couple of guys here really interested in pushing it more...

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 Post subject: Re: Shape/Vertex Animation
 Post Posted: Sat Aug 01, 2015 1:07 am 
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HappyCab wrote:
...
What about my cowboy in shootanza? To me, they are only 5 toys parts animated with scripting (moveTo) at runtime (or so I beleive!!). Do FP also precalculate all animations and Create a static model at each givien position for each frame of animation? if this is the case...this would be insane!!!
...

Just my opinion: if FP precalculate animations, it's only for animated models (as drop targets). How can FP precalculates MoveTo x, y, z (or whatever you want) with x, y and z calculated in real time?
For me, don't modelize a drop target but just a toy. It's easy to script a toy as a drop target.

PS: on your second test, I'm over 700 fps (see my config on my signature)

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 Post subject: Re: Shape/Vertex Animation
 Post Posted: Sat Aug 01, 2015 10:52 am 
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Problem with what I want to do and simple toy they must share a mutual pivot point to be animated, So no IK is possible.

Each limb (Torso, Arm, Forearm, Fist) of a body need its own pivot point to be attached to the previous chain in a skeleton. I know it is possible to fake IK with script but don't think it is possible to make think appear constraint to each other in FP.

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